ArcheAge [Guide] Defence Penetration vs Critical Damage (Also 2H vs DW)

[Guide] Defence Penetration vs Critical Damage (Also 2H vs DW)
Help with awaken Brilliant Hiram Guardian Nodachi :C
What to do with: Abyssal ayanad council manaprint
Executioner full-build // Blade Dancer (4 year hiatus)
State of the game?
Aria Omen pvp archer/sooth POV
Abolisher Build
Red Dragon Montage ^_^

[Guide] Defence Penetration vs Critical Damage (Also 2H vs DW)

Posted: 25 Jul 2019 10:19 PM PDT

Original Forum Thread: http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?352921-Guide-Defence-Penetration-vs-Critical-Damage-(Also-2H-vs-DW))

Hi guys, I'm Harvest from the Jakar EU Server.

I already made a lot of Posts about that Topic inside this Forum or Reddit, but I think would be good to have a dedicated Thread to make it simplier and easier for people to find an answer about that.

Everybody asked that at least one time, which is better? Defence Penetration or Critical Damage?

We should start explaining some Basics to make everything easier when we go deep on explaining things:

The Formula for Defence is: Defence / (Defence + 7900).
After the last changes to Resilience, that Stat decrease Critical Damage by 14% every 1k (It also decrease the Critical Rate, but the precise number is still unknow, probably 3/4% every 1k). (Also remember that Resilience does not suffer from any kind of Diminishing Returns and DOES NOT have a Cap, the only Cap is the one that can be reached, better explaining on point 5)
In the next few Patch there will be two changes: Resilience will be nerfed by a rateo of 1.3 to 1.2, that means that after these Patch Resilience will reduce Critical Damage by 12.9% every 1k (Instead of 14%) and 2H Gems will increase their Stat Value from 1.25 of a 1H Gem to 1.5 of a 1H Gem. (So calculations will change a bit)
Critical Damage can't go below 50% and the Damage Cap is 300% but that Cap is calculated AFTER the Resilience Reduction (That mean that if for example you have 300% Critical Damage, and your opponent reduce your Critical Damage by 70%, your Precision Strike (That have a 70% Critical Damage Bonus) will still deal 300% (300% - 70% from Resilience = 230% / 230% + 70% Precision Strike Bonus = 300%).
Right now, the maximum amount of Resilience reachable is 13k with Mythic Hiram Equip and will become 14k with Eternal Hiram Equip. (Decent Geared Players fluctuate between 10k to 12k, but this number will go higher the more the time goes by)

Ok, these are the Basics that everybody need to know and understand if we want to move forward.

Before we start with the math, we still need to make clear some things up, so we don't fall for traps that a lot of people bring up a lot of times.

Toughness and % Damage Reduction do not matter, since both the Damage that come from Critical Damage and Defence Penetration get equally reduced by that % amount... So these Stats are not needed to make a comparison about CD and DP.
A lot of the Attack Damage that you get comes from Items that are not your Weapon (Accessories, Armor & Costume/Undergaments), so you CAN'T make a direct comparison only using the DPS of a 2H and 1H Weapon, you need to create the SAME Build and only switch the Weapons between two equally powerful 2H and DW and make a calculation with the Numbers that are given.
The test will proceed like that: Every Build will have a Damage Calculation for a Crit and a Non-Crit and we will do multiple Tests, against a Target with 12k Defence and 22k Defence and we will go through different amounts of Resilience (10k, 11k, 12k, 13k and 14k).
We will use as Build a Full Hiram Epic T3 with T3 +5 Gems, since is not on either extremes. (The math behind it will be still the same even on higher Gear Scores, and it will more or less scale linearly).
As Attack Speed we will use the counterpart of the Weapons, so if we use a Katana (1.0 Attack Speed) for DW, we will use a Nodachi (1.1 Attack Speed) as 2H for the Damage Calculation... If you want to do the test for an Axe (1.1 Attack Speed) and Greataxe (1.2 Attack Speed) just add 0.1 in the Damage Formula that will appear later.

Let's start with the math.

Since Resilience does not matter for Defence Penetration, we only need to test the two Defences (12k and 22k)

DW Defence Penetration Build (https://archeagecalculator.com/?a=a4727126&b=7):

1484 Attack Damage & 9k Defence Penetration

Damage = 1484x1.04 = 1543(0.04 comes from the x2 2% Lunafrost, we need to include them since the 2H Bonus give 5% Skill Damage)

Non Crit Damage = 1543

Crit Damage = 1543x1.5 = 2314

12k Defence = Reduced to 3k (0 with Puncture Passive)

3k Defence = 27.5% Damage Reduction

Non Crit = 1543x0.725 = 1189

Crit = 2314x0.725 = 1677

0k Defence = 0% Damage Reduction

Non Crit = 1543x1= 1543

Crit = 2314x1= 2314

22k Defence = Reduced to 13k (10k with Pucture Passive)

13k Defence = 62% Reduction

Non Crit = 1543x0.38 = 552

Crit = 2314x0.38 = 879

10k Defence = 56% Reduction

Non Crit = 1543x0.44 = 679

Crit = 2314x0.44 = 1018

2H Defence Penetration Build (https://archeagecalculator.com/?a=b0619126&b=7):

1656 Attack Damage & 7.5k Defence Penetration

Damage = 1656x1.18 = 1954(0.08 comes from the 3% Lunafrost and 5% 2H Equip Bonus / 0.1 comes from 10% bonus from 1.1 Attack Speed)

Non Crit Damage = 1954

Crit Damage = 1954x1.5 = 2931

12k Defence = Reduced to 4.5k (1.5k with Puncture Passive)

4.5k Defence = 36.5% Damage Reduction

Non Crit = 1954x0.635 = 1241

Crit = 2931x0.635 = 1861

1.5k Defence = 16% Damage Reduction

Non Crit = 1954x0.84 = 1641

Crit = 2931x0.84 = 2445

22k Defence = Reduced to 14.5k (11.5k with Pucture Passive)

14.5k Defence = 64,5% Reduction

Non Crit = 1954x0.355 = 694

Crit = 2931x0.355 = 1040

11.5k Defence = 56% Reduction

Non Crit = 1954x0.40 = 781

Crit = 2931x0.40 = 1172

Since Critical Melee Builds all have Abilities or Passive that increase Critical Damage (Like Battle Focus, Delyrium Stacks or Steady Shooting) I will add 45% to create the best case scenario for a Critical Damage Build (Even if most of the time you can't even fully Stack Delyrium or you are not able to use Steady Shooting)

DW Critical Damage Build (https://archeagecalculator.com/?a=b0757026&b=7):

Attack Damage 1484 & 5k Defence Penetration & 248% Critical Damage (+45% Critical Damage = 293% Critical Damage)

Damage = 1484x1.04 = 1543(0.04 comes from the x2 2% Lunafrost, we need to include them since the 2H Bonus give 5% Skill Damage)

Non Crit Damage = 1543

Crit Damage vs 10k Resilience = 1543x2.53 = 3904
Crit Damage vs 11k Resilience = 1543x2.39 = 3688
Crit Damage vs 12k Resilience = 1542x2.25 = 3472
Crit Damage vs 13k Resilience = 1542x2.11 = 3253
Crit Damage vs 14k Resilience = 1542x1.97 = 3038

12k Defence = Reduced to 7k (4 with Puncture Passive)

7k Defence = 47% Damage Reduction

Non Crit = 1543x0.53 = 818

Crit vs 10k Resilience = 3904x0.53 = 2069
Crit vs 11k Resilience = 3688x0.53 = 1954
Crit vs 12k Resilience = 3472x0.53 = 1840
Crit vs 13k Resilience = 3253x0.53 = 1724
Crit vs 14k Resilience = 3038x0.53 = 1610

4k Defence =33.5% Damage Reduction

Non Crit =1543x0.665 = 818

Crit vs 10k Resilience = 3904x0.665 = 2596
Crit vs 11k Resilience = 3688x0.665 = 2452
Crit vs 12k Resilience = 3472x0.665 = 2308
Crit vs 13k Resilience = 3253x0.665 = 2163
Crit vs 14k Resilience = 3038x0.665 = 2020

22k Defence = Reduced to 17k (14k with Pucture Passive)

17k Defence = 68% Reduction

Non Crit = 1543x0.32 = 494

Crit vs 10k Resilience = 3904x0.32 = 1249
Crit vs 11k Resilience = 3688x0.32 = 1180
Crit vs 12k Resilience = 3472x0.32 = 1111
Crit vs 13k Resilience = 3253x0.32 = 1041
Crit vs 14k Resilience = 3038x0.32 = 972

14k Defence = 64% Reduction

Non Crit = 1543x0.36 = 555

Crit vs 10k Resilience = 3904x0.36 = 1405
Crit vs 11k Resilience = 3688x0.36 = 1327
Crit vs 12k Resilience = 3472x0.36 = 1250
Crit vs 13k Resilience = 3253x0.36 = 1271
Crit vs 14k Resilience = 3038x0.36 = 1093

2H Critical Damage Build (https://archeagecalculator.com/?a=b2359126&b=7):

Attack Damage 1656 & 4.5k Defence Penetration & 209% Critical Damage (+45% Critical Damage = 254% Critical Damage)

Damage = 1656x1.18 = 1954(0.08 comes from the 3% Lunafrost and 5% 2H Equip Bonus / 0.1 comes from 10% bonus from 1.1 Attack Speed)

Non Crit Damage = 1954

Crit Damage vs 10k Resilience = 1954x2.14 = 4181
Crit Damage vs 11k Resilience = 1954x2.00 = 3908
Crit Damage vs 12k Resilience = 1954x1.86 = 3634
Crit Damage vs 13k Resilience = 1954x1.50 = 2931
Crit Damage vs 14k Resilience = 1954x1.50 = 2931

12k Defence = Reduced to 7.5k (4.5k with Puncture Passive)

7.5k Defence = 48.5% Damage Reduction

Non Crit = 1954x0.515 = 1006

Crit vs 10k Resilience = 4181x0.515 = 2153
Crit vs 11k Resilience = 3908x0.515 = 2012
Crit vs 12k Resilience = 3634x0.515 = 1872
Crit vs 13k Resilience = 2931x0.515 = 1509
Crit vs 14k Resilience = 2931x0.515 = 1509

4.5k Defence = 36.5% Damage Reduction

Non Crit = 1954x0.635 = 1241

Crit vs 10k Resilience = 4181x0.635 = 2655
Crit vs 11k Resilience = 3908x0.635 = 2481
Crit vs 12k Resilience = 3634x0.635 = 2307
Crit vs 13k Resilience = 2931x0.635 = 1861
Crit vs 14k Resilience = 2931x0.635 = 1861

22k Defence = Reduced to 17.5k (14.5k with Pucture Passive)

17.5k Defence = 69% Reduction

Non Crit = 1954x0.31 = 606

Crit vs 10k Resilience = 4181x0.31 = 1296
Crit vs 11k Resilience = 3908x0.31 = 1211
Crit vs 12k Resilience = 3634x0.31 = 1126
Crit vs 13k Resilience = 2931x0.31 = 909
Crit vs 14k Resilience = 2931x0.31 = 909

14.5k Defence = 64.5% Reduction

Non Crit = 1954x0.355 = 694

Crit vs 10k Resilience = 4181x0.355 = 1484
Crit vs 11k Resilience = 3908x0.355 = 1387
Crit vs 12k Resilience = 3634x0.355 = 1290
Crit vs 13k Resilience = 2931x0.355 = 1040
Crit vs 14k Resilience = 2931x0.355 = 1040

(If I mess up some numbers (They were so many lol) for the rush, feel free to point it out, I will edit right away)

Conclusion:

As we can see the Damage from Critical Strike falloff really hard against Target with high Resilience, so more the time pass and Players acquire more Resilience the more Defence Penetration will become efficent.

Without even counting four things:

We assumed that the Character always had a 45% Critical Damage Buff active (Since Delyrium Stacks take 5 seconds of attacking to build, Battle Focus have a cooldown and Steady Shooting can't be used if you are moving as an Archer).
If you don't crit, your Damage is literally null on a Critical Damage Build.
Critical Damage only goes off when you Crit, Resilience also decrease Critical Strike Chance (Is still not clear the precise number, but it is probably 3/4% every 1k) and Parry and Block completly negate the Critical Strike (And pretty much everybody sit a minimum 50% Parry and/or Block, making really hard to Crit "on command").
Going for Defence Penetration & Critical Damage on Hiram/Erenor Weapons on the Critical Damage Build make you lose a lot of Crit (Making you sit at 85/90%, compared to a Defence Penetration Build where you reach the Critical Rate Cap), lowering the efficency of the Build making it less reiable.

Another thing that we observed is that right now, without the 2H Gem Buffs and Resilience Nerf going for Critical Damage with a 2H is the worst thing you can do, and will probably still that way even after the Buff/Nerf since you lose way too much Critical Damage (Without counting that the 2H Gems Buff will also improve the Defence Penetration Build).

So Harvest, I'm X/Y/Z, what should I build?
Mage: Your Attacks can't be Parried or Blocked (So people can't deny your Crits), but you don't have any Critical Damage Steroids, so you sit at a lower Critical Damage... So probably is better to go on the Defence Penetration route.
Archer: Defence Penetration, since you don't relay on CC, and people can easily Parry or Block your attacks, you have better chance of dealing damage with a Defence Penetration Build, but remember that you don't have the Puncture Passive, so Defence Penetration is less efficent compared to a Melee (But you also can't stay in Steady Shooting all the time, so it even out). Is probably a matter of "How much I feel lucky to not get Parried/Blocked and be able to Crit?"
Melee: You can CC and Backstab people, so both build work fine, it's a matter of what you prefer, both works, if you want to be more reiable you go with Defence Penetration, if you want big Crits with Precision Strike you go Critical Damage Build (It's always a matter of "Will I crit?").

So, which are the "Kings of DPS"? If we assume that you always aim for fighting against the Top-Players in the Game, the answer is: 2H Defence Penetration Build and DW Critical Damage Build.

Also to mention that DW is still a bit overtuned compared to 2H (Since in the worst case scenario you will end up with nearly the same Damage and in the best case scenario with more Damage, and on top of that you have 177 Attack Speed), hopefully with the 2H Gems changes 2H will be balanced out at the same powerlevel of Dual Wield.

If I can take a hard guess, probably with the new Skill Tree that has been added in Korea, XLGames wanted to create a clear direction for the two type of Weapons, Dual Wield will focus hard on Critical Damage and 2H will focus hard on Defence Penetration. (We already had an int in the past with the "Shield Penetration" Stats, but since is too much situational, is a Stat that is not worth taking, and probably it will never be really used)

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Help with awaken Brilliant Hiram Guardian Nodachi :C

Posted: 26 Jul 2019 10:51 AM PDT

Hello people!

I have a question, if I have a Brilliant Hiram Guardian Nodachi in legendary, when I go up from grade to t4, will it be in legendary?

Thank you very much for your time! <3

submitted by /u/Zemys
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What to do with: Abyssal ayanad council manaprint

Posted: 26 Jul 2019 07:29 AM PDT

Guys I have like 60 of this item which I have no idea what to do with. It dropped from library bosses. So what do I do with those?

submitted by /u/Anakhsunamon
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Executioner full-build // Blade Dancer (4 year hiatus)

Posted: 25 Jul 2019 05:43 PM PDT

Hello! I just returned from a FOUR YEAR hiatus and wanted to try either executioner or blade-dancer but unsure on what skillpoints go where, and what gear I should be looking to get.

Any tips, screenshots of the build/tree, anything would be very much welcomed.

Thanks!

submitted by /u/Elder-Mael
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Posted: 25 Jul 2019 06:58 PM PDT

How is the state of the game these days? Is the population decent on NA servers? Is there a fresh start planned soon? Some friends and I have been thinking about returning for awhile.

submitted by /u/CDR_Rippleshanks
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Aria Omen pvp archer/sooth POV

Posted: 25 Jul 2019 09:28 PM PDT

submitted by /u/voltenn
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Posted: 25 Jul 2019 08:54 PM PDT

Hi, I am playing this build. Any advices on another skills to put points in? Or is this good? I want to be focused at PVP, but I also need a build for pve tank. Any advices for those 2 instances?

https://i.redd.it/h7krp1d1mkc31.png

submitted by /u/sznyaan
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Red Dragon Montage ^_^

Posted: 25 Jul 2019 07:47 PM PDT